22 responses so far ↓

• 1 Mark H (Not Hebert) // Jan 17, 2012 at 10:11 am

  Only in the realm of government, would you spend millions of dollars on purchasing hybrid buses in an attempt to reduce fuel costs and pollution, when you could accomplish far better results without have to invest a single penny in hybrid technology by reducing the time the buses are running but simply moving back to neighborhood schools.

  I guess this proves that school diversity is more important than than the environment or taxpayer dollars.

• 2 Fleur-de-gris // Jan 17, 2012 at 11:39 am

  Support Svcs bought buses because they needed buses. They did a good thing in choosing responsibly.
  They don’t have control over the assignment plan – that’s the Board – but, when/if school assignment evolves, these buses were still a good choice, right?
  Give ‘em a break, Mr H. It’s OK to pick on weaknesses, but celebrate smart moves too!

• 3 Laurie Spezzano // Jan 17, 2012 at 1:02 pm

  Southern Living is not a foodie magazine, but it does contribute to the image of a town and encourage tourism. A positive profile there certainly couldn’t hurt. And at least during Derby week/month, this is a Southern town!

• 4 The Tim // Jan 17, 2012 at 2:55 pm

  Hey, J. Bruce: Louisville won’t (I might be so brash as to say can’t, also) support an NBA team. Look at all of the other sporting ventures that have came and went over the last two decades, and ticket prices to those events were reasonably priced! Give it up!!!!

• 5 J. Bruce Miller // Jan 17, 2012 at 6:23 pm

  The Tim: I don’t know which ‘sporting ventures … “have came” … over the last two decades. I am aware of a few that — “have come” — here. I’m also aware that none of the that “have come” here were major league professional sports. So, if we can manage to pull this off, then you’re just one less person that will be hounding me for a ticket when the Celtics/Rondo or the Lakers/Bryant or the Kings/Cousins&Garcia or the Bulls/Rose or the Clippers etc, etc come to town!!!!!!!

  Sure appreciate it, because that’s just one less worry for ole’ Brucie!! Good night, Tim.

• 6 The Tim // Jan 17, 2012 at 6:40 pm

  Let’s see, Louisville didn’t support the two hockey teams, the arena football team. Do I need to go on?

  Never have been a fan of the NBA, Brucie. Just a bunch of punks and thugs. So I won’t be calling for tix.

• 7 Gil // Jan 17, 2012 at 7:37 pm

  Wow. Childish. Very childish. And the ice hawks won two cups and went to divisional playoffs multiple times. Yet as with all thinks in the ville they faded. The redbirds were awesome. But they too faded away.

  The n b a will not ever be in this burg. It is simply a pipe dream

• 8 Bill // Jan 17, 2012 at 9:21 pm

  I think that the people who are pushing this NBA fallacy have a hidden stake in making a good amount of money at the local level by promoting this bizarre fantasy. In that they get nice funding checks and government handouts from the taxpayers for pulling it off. However, its already been proven that Louisville couldn’t support the IceHawks, the Catbirds, the Colonels (who almost went to Cincy in the early 70s) and eventually faded from the NBA because the city couldn’t pony up something like 3 million dollars. Louisville is a city of missed opportunities and has been for quite some time. Missed opportunities with getting better businesses here that employ more people at better wages. Not to mention the schools and educational system. Its obvious that over a 20 year period, the educational system has fallen apart and more money and opportunities have been wasted. One could say that with the airport expansion and how it ended up destroying a vast area of the city. Yes, we got the UPS jobs out of that but also have a lot of good land vacant in the South End.

  The same could be said of our rotting infrastructure including our surface streets including state highways are falling apart. Anyone around town that drives as much as I have knows about various places where the roads can just about wreck a car. I can name numerous places that could happen.

  Oh, and let’s also mention how the city and its so called leaders sold the arena project to the people and now finding out they can’t meet the tax projections on the neighboring businesses so now Moody’s is looking at downgrading the bonds. Now with 29 years to pay off the arena and the bonds, we’re already looking at a shortfall of revenue. Not to mention that this lack of revenue will ultimately be made up by the taxpayer through additional taxes and levies against income and property. At a time when the city is currently 6 million dollars in debt and it is projected to be 20 to 30 million dollars in debt by July. But see, the proponents of the arena and the NBA and the rest of the skullduggery aren’t interested in how the taxpayers will end up being soaked for the grandiose visions of a few and a carpetbagger from Lexington named Host.

  Why did Host resign from the Louisville Arena Authority in December? Is it because the time is up on his huckster routine of selling snake oil? Did he know that the game was up on the bonds being downgraded so he had to get out of town while the getting was good? Because he knew that eventually the arena wouldn’t meet its obligation? Like when they couldn’t pay the out of state contractors and some as far as Minnesota had to come to Louisville to try to get their money for services that had already been performed. Or how the Arena missed its first property tax payment in April despite having been open for six months. These are serious questions that need to be answered just like the supposed Chinese investors and billionaires. Louisville taxpayers shouldn’t be fleeced into paying any more money for any studies into getting an NBA team. I also don’t want to see my money or anyone else’s to go into a 56 year old arena to spend 80 million to 100 million to refurbish it for an NBA team that no one really knows if it will succeed here. Now if you can get the money spent by those investors, they by all means let them do it. Otherwise, its time for Louisville to take care of its messes including the budget deficit, 60,000 locals out of work, educating the populace, and spend less time blowing smoke up the asses of the people about some NBA team that most of the people won’t support and don’t want to see their dollars spent on while roads, infrastructure, schools are falling apart.

  Like I said, there’s a nice payout either through government funding of this idea or eventually a payout of another kind. It shouldn’t be that taxpayers have to pay for the fact that other people ran up credit card debts and lost their ass. Let them eat their financial decisions.

• 9 J. Bruce Miller // Jan 17, 2012 at 11:30 pm

  Bill: Wasn’t it Mark Twain who said — “I didn’t have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one?” Seems like everything you write is a ‘rant.’ Did you ever dod any research on the business attraction of major league sports for a city’s economic climate? Since it had the NBA, Memphis has gained 2 Fortune 500 Hdqts. Nashville has gained a 3,500 Dell hdqts and Nissan’s World Hdqts + all sorts of other things since the NFL and NHL arrived. Oklahoma City is significantly smaller that Louisville Metro, yet it has a fantastic NBA squad and fan support (and is also a college town w/Univ of Okla.)

  I could go on, but I want to write a short letter. Educate yourself.

• 10 Bill // Jan 18, 2012 at 12:40 am

  I might add that the reason why places like Memphis, Nashville, and Oklahoma City have gained corporate HQs has much more to do with the business environment of their respective states as well as the tax codes of those states in which taxes on productivity are much lower. Kentucky has a regressive tax code with a state income tax on individuals of nearly 6 percent for most everyone. That is in addition to 2.2 percent for Louisville Metro including part of that being a school tax and the rest occupational taxes. Perhaps you should educate yourself regarding taxes. Not to mention that Tennessee has a income tax rate on individuals of zero percent. They have no state income tax and have a sales tax which is 9.25 percent which more than makes up for the lack of a state income tax. I might also add that Indiana, that state north of us, happens to have an income tax of 3.4 percent on the individual and most counties only have a county income tax of no more than 1.5 percent. Same goes for Indianapolis and Marion County, Indiana having a tax rate on income no more than 5 percent which includes both state and city taxes. 3.2 PERCENT lower than Louisville. Not to mention it also has 500,000 more people in its MSA than does Louisville.

  If the NBA can’t make it in New Orleans, the party and entertainment capital of the Deep South and similarly sized in a metro sense as Louisville with both cities being similar in size when you consider their MSA populations, then it won’t cut the mustard in Louisville. Louisville is a city that can’t even balance its own budget under the incompetent reign of Fischer and Abramson before him. Half of the city of Louisville has severe infrastructure problems including bad roads. That makes this metro look bad and its because of the people running Louisville. Not to mention, the fact that the Commonwealth of Kentucky can’t even paint a bridge and it ends up taking a decade to get the job done. Also, the bridges project which has been a fiasco for years including back into the 1960s and 70s when the loop around Louisville should have been completed.

  I might add that the reason why Oklahoma City done so well in both attracting a team is in regards to the Hornets being located there from 2005 until 2007-2008. Then the fact that Clay Bennett owned the Sonics in Seattle and couldn’t get an arena deal done so ended up moving the Sonics franchise to OKC because that was his hometown where his own family had a myriad of financial interests. That did put OKC on the map but also OKC had a good business climate because its a right to work state that is attractive to employers as is the state of Tennessee. It happens to be attractive to big corporations and business interests because they have less interference in their affairs.

  I might also add that Louisville has a problem getting businesses because of the culture that exists in state and local government including that of excessive taxation, wasteful and incompetent government, and the inability to attract business because of a New Orleans style educational system. Perhaps again you should educate yourself when the local education bureaucracy ranks 118th out of 154 Kentucky School districts.

  I could go on, but facts to you are irrelevant.

• 11 The Tim // Jan 18, 2012 at 9:47 am

  Well put, Bill. Louisville’s socio-economic status has changed. The high-paying jobs aren’t as plentiful as they were 10 years ago, and the entertainment dollar can go to different places. Going to a high-priced event like an NBA game would be a treat, like a birthday outing, not a regular event.

  I loved going to the Ice Hawks and River Frogs games while in college. It was a great affordable weekend outing. I kick myself for not attending a Fire football game.

• 12 Bill // Jan 18, 2012 at 12:38 pm

  Totally agree Tim and here is the kicker that I truly love sports. Its not an anti sports mentality with me but I don’t think the taxpayer should be getting screwed to death because the Arena Authority and people like Jim Host the carpetbagger came in and told us all these pie in the sky projections. Just like this NBA pipe dream we keep being fed. No offense to the NBA because I probably watch 3 or 4 games a week but that doesn’t mean that Louisville is going to be the end all be all for some team that couldn’t make it in New Orleans or even Sacramento or somewhere else. It must also be argued that if the NBA is the pill that cures economic ills such as lack of jobs, lack of corporate HQs, then why hasn’t New Orleans of all places become an economic magnet. After all, New Orleans is a major shipping and transport area for this country including inland traffic passing through it. Not to mention that its metro area including the Northshore of Lake Pontchartrain sits on major interstate route 10 that goes across the country.

  In fact, New Orleans has did so poorly with its economic performance that only 1 Fortune 500 companies locate there as a HQ and that is Entergy Corporation, the large power company. Memphis has 3 Fortune 500 HQs including International Paper, FedEx and Auto Zone. Oklahoma City has two Fortune 500 headquarters both in the Energy industry of which we know has been doing relatively well over the past few years with the jump in prices for oil, etc. While Louisville has two in Yum Brands and Humana. Its not as if Memphis or New Orleans is tearing up the business world and neither is Louisville but some people think the NBA is going to fix that problem. Sorry, but its business regulations and taxes and the educational system and from what I know about Memphis and New Orleans is that they have very poor educational achievement and problems. Much like the JCPS. The Times-Picayune of New Orleans has regularly ran stories on the education system or lack thereof especially in Orleans Parish which is the city of New Orleans.

  I used to go to Ice Hawks games on occasion as well as the River Frogs. Affordable family entertainment was what that and the Catbirds, RiverFrogs, Ice Hawks, etc. Not something where Louisvillians end up paying 50 to 100 bucks a ticket for a game. Its interesting too because the NBA would be a 41 game home schedule. Now how would that conflict with U of L having 15 to 20 home games a year. Somebody ends up losing because there isn’t enough money to go around. Unless you’re getting money from Metro Council who gives away tens of thousands as well as has a couple of paid lackeys that went to Baltimore and signed a non disclosure agreement with a private company called Cordish. Yes, I’m calling out David Tandy.

  It sounds much the same as this NBA talk that you have a few Chinese billionaires ready to sign and cut a deal. Yet those Chinese billionaires weren’t sophisticated enough to understand the idea of a labor union. I know China cracks down and prohibits private unions but you’re telling me these people aren’t savvy enough to figure out there are labor issues in a free society. Come on and stop trying to blow smoke.

• 13 Jason Puckett // Jan 18, 2012 at 1:20 pm

  Mr. Miller may want to check his geography as Oklahoma City is NOT a college town.

  Also, Oklahoma City had proven it could support an NBA franchise when the Hornets relocated there post-Katrina, so that may not be the best example.

  My questions would be these: We hear of these alleged investors putting up the money to bring an NBA team to Louisville. Once a team is here, what is their plan going forward as far as putting a quality product on the floor? Will they be willing to open the checkbook and pay top-notch free agents/coaches? Will they financially commit to building a championship contender?

  Everybody knows that once the novelty wears off, fans won’t tolerate (see pay big bucks) to see a losing team, and for the one time a year Kobe (who is already in the twilight of his career) comes to town, there’s the multiple times we’re stuck watching the Hawks, Bobcats, Bucks, 76ers, etc.

  In other words, getting a team here is one thing, making the investment for that team to succeed is another. The NBA would lose its “new car smell” pretty quickly here, and then what?

• 14 Bill // Jan 18, 2012 at 1:35 pm

  Some very good points about that “new car smell”

  Once the shakedown cruise is done with like what happened in New Orleans the first season or so will the fans support the team. I followed the Hornets from 1988 to now and frankly they had good attendance in Charlotte and then ownership and bad teams wrecked that. Then they moved to NO the first year 2002-2003 and did a credible job with attendance and play. Then turned around after that and fell into the abyss. The only thing that happened that really ended up being a positive for the team was to play in Oklahoma for a couple years. Then back to New Orleans where they could barely pull in 15,000 a game. If you look, Memphis and New Orleans were traditionally the two worst drawing teams in the NBA going back several season. Despite them having playoff teams and metro MSA areas much the same size as Louisville. Can one imagine the embarrassment of having the Chicken Bucket downtown with 13,000 people for a game or even 10k and half the seats empty. Will they have to do an NFL Jacksonville Jaguars stunt and put covers over about 10,000 seats because they can’t sell tickets. I’m sure that our pontificating dear leader will tell us that we’re just not educated enough to figure it out. Despite some of us having equal or in some cases higher quality credentials than the pontificating purveyor of the current NBA dogma.

• 15 J. Bruce Miller // Jan 18, 2012 at 1:37 pm

  The problem with Tim Tam, Bill and Jason is that they have no understanding of the economics of major league sports.

  There are multiple examples, but I won’t do a “Bill ‘multi paragraph’ Rant. I’ll simply give one example. Jason says Oklahoma City is not a college town. For your information, the econometrics of a major league franchise considers the “market area of the franchise” not the ‘city limits’ of the city in which it exists. In other words any person within 75 miles (an hour’s drive) of the major league city is considered in the ‘market area.’ Now, Ole’ Jason — if you’d just take the time to Google the distance between Ok. City and Norman you’d find they are 20 miles apart — about the same distance as Louisville is from Shelbyville — and I can assure you that Shelbyville is in the Louisville ‘market’ (as is Lexington – my friend). So when you add up ALL THE FOLKS who live in the major-league market that would serve a Louisville team, the number comes to just short of 2,000,000 people.

  Now, instead of sitting in your basements and eating Cheezits and typing on the internet all night, it might behoove you to have a LEARNED opinion, not just an opinion — because while everyone’s entitled to his or her opinion, the more valuable opinions are those that are based on facts. Like somebody once said, Opinions are like assholes — everyone’s got one. But that’s not true about an “Educated Opinion.”

• 16 Jason Puckett // Jan 18, 2012 at 3:04 pm

  First and foremost, it’s Cheez-It.

  Interesting logic, but Oklahoma City is NOT a college town. By your standard, Detroit can claim the University of Michigan, Birmingham can claim the University of Alabama, Atlanta can claim the University of Georgia, etc., so #FAIL.

  Also, OKC has one the top 5 players in the association on its roster, which makes them a major draw. Would your alleged investors be willing to pony up $86 million over five years, on top of the costs of relocating a team, arena renovation, etc. to guarantee a marquee player on the roster for the long term, or the $5 – $7 million a year for a top-flight coach? Are they willing to make the additional investment for the team to be competitive and/or a championship contender, or will we be stuck with a team like the Raptors/Bobcats/T-Wolves?

  My opinion is quite learned, and the point is that getting a team here is one thing; consistently maintaining a quality product is another, and there doesn’t seem to be any planning at all for that.

  Unless it’s consistently competitive on the court, the NBA, in its current state, would completely die on the vine in this metropolitan area.

• 17 keatssycamore // Jan 18, 2012 at 3:45 pm

  Oklahoma City is NOT a college town. By your standard, Detroit can claim the University of Michigan, Birmingham can claim the University of Alabama, Atlanta can claim the University of Georgia, etc., so #FAIL.

  J.B.,

  Don’t listen to these “cronic” carpers, y’all are talking about two different things. They’re talking reality. You’re talking Chinese billionaires.

  Don’t let the door hit you on your “opinion” as you let yourself and your secret Chinamen out of our taxpaying pockets.

• 18 J. Bruce Miller // Jan 18, 2012 at 4:04 pm

  Jason: I’m leaving this discussion with a correction. Many folks around here claim an NBA team wouldn’t succeed merely because Louisville’s a college town with U/L. My point is that Ok. City has a college w/in its market area, but that doesn’t inhibit the success of the Ok. City NBA team. All the studies that have been done by a multiple of financial analysts have concluded that Louisville’s market area is fully capable of supporting an NBA franchise. As a matter of fact the leading sports economist in America at Berkeley in Frisco concludes this.

  So, you’re entitled to your opinion, but if it includes your observations about the success quotient of a team, here, from a ‘wealth of the market area’ standpoint — you’re wrong.

  Enough said. You’re too negative to see the ‘light’ on this one.

• 19 Jason Puckett // Jan 18, 2012 at 4:39 pm

  No sir, I’m not wrong, I’m just too practical to see the light.

  The question is not CAN it support an NBA franchise, but WILL it support an NBA franchise?

  A large part of the “WILL” is the commitment of the alleged investors to maintaining a quality product, or a “Commitment to Excellence” if you will.

  Then the question becomes, would that “commitment” be the Al Davis version or the Rooney family/Bob Kraft version, or, in basketball terms, Donald Sterling vs. Dr. Buss?

  I’m still waiting for your answers to those questions…

  #rememberthefive

• 20 J. Bruce Miller // Jan 18, 2012 at 5:28 pm

  Answer to Jason: I would NEVER recommend a majority investor to the minority investors who are interested in joining into the deal who was not fully committed to fund a high level and sound investment. I’ve spent far too much time on this and far too much of my own wherewithall to recommend someone who wouldn’t assure our community of the success.

• 21 Bill // Jan 18, 2012 at 5:50 pm

  That’s why its failed 3 other times and its going to fail a fourth time. But those secret Chinese investors do exist only as a figment of one’s imagination. It’s time for the people of this community to start writing the Metro Council and end this charade of funding a useless attempt at someone else’s past failures. Its like giving car keys and whiskey to a teenage boy and expecting to all end well. Sorry, but I’ve never liked Cheez-Its, and I don’t have a basement nor do I live with my momma. At least one thing is that I don’t ask the taxpayers to foot the bill at my attempt for some delusional vision of grandeur. Maybe they should call Louisville by the name of Delusionalville since it seems to be a major issue with the so called community leaders who fail time and time again on issues of major importance.

• 22 The Tim // Jan 18, 2012 at 11:09 pm

  I understand economics, Bruce, and Louisville’s economic health won’t support an NBA team.

  But I’m not the type of person to dash someone else’s dreams. If it’s your dream to bring a pro-sporting team to town, that’s your right.

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